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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Sept 13, 2012 13:23:40 GMT -8
I decided to split this off from the expansion talk, as I think it deserves its' own forum. I have been reading all of the thoughts and what not on minor leaguers - and I think that I have come to a set up that everyone will like.
1. Minor League rosters move to 5 players. 2. Minor Leaguers will be fluid. In other words, if a player on your minors roster gets called up - you need to either activate him or drop him. You can then add a minor leaguer to replace him. 3. If a player on your MLB roster gets demoted - you can move him back down to the minors roster and drop another minor leaguer. 4. There will be no salary restrictions on MLers. You will not have to have only one $5 minor leaguer, etc, so long as you always carry 5 total MLers on your ML roster (regardless if they are a "rookie." 5. Any team that does not have 5 minor leaguers would get an illegal lineup. And like the DL - if a MLer is called up, CBS will make you activate him the next time you change your lineup. 6. Minor Leaguers drafted during the ML draft will be 5M, 4M, 3M, 2M, 1M. However, MLers added via free agency will fall under the rules of MLB free agents. 7. The reason for #6 is to reward the drafting - as MLers with a "M" contract will carry an initial 3 year contract, with the standard 2-year extension available like MLB players. (So if you draft Anthony Rendon as a 5M-3, when he is a 5M-1 he can be extended to a 11M-3*) 8. Only players who have rookie eligibility can be drafted in the minors draft. However, during the season, you can add a minor league vet like Jack Cust or someone if you want. 9. If we move forward with expansion, the minors draft will in effect be rounds 31-35 of the main draft, and minor leaguers who are kept will count towards the salary cap - as well as cost a corresponding draft pick. 10. A minor leaguer can still be drafted during the MLB draft. However, he would then be subject to MLB player contract and extension rules.
--> I think these changes would have a very positive effect on add/drop policy and enforcement. They days of restricting who is added when would be gone. You could add a minor leaguer before he makes his MLB debut - but until he is activated - he would be forced into the minors roster. Thus - you can add a guy ahead of his debut - but you would have to drop one of your other minor leaguers in order to do so. The days of an "illegal add" would be gone.
I know there are a few of you that are passionate about the minor leaguers... let me hear your thoughts!
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Sept 13, 2012 13:50:03 GMT -8
Will we need to add to the 3 pickup rule because if they move a player off the minors to active I need to be able to get someone to not have the illegal lineup you mention..
I do like the other info!!!
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Sept 13, 2012 14:05:55 GMT -8
I don't think there would be a ton of add/drop activity with the minor leaguers... I think that adding one additional add per week would be more than sufficient - so we could bump it to 4 if all are in favor of doing so.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Sept 13, 2012 14:09:05 GMT -8
I have no problem keeping at 3 and just getting approval from you to compensate the minors?
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Sept 13, 2012 14:16:09 GMT -8
I think 3 is good personally, but if there is enough of a call to add one more I am totally open to that as well.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Sept 13, 2012 18:21:19 GMT -8
In terms of the minor leagues, I can see going to 5 OR allowing you to replenish the spot. If we do both, we really are getting into monitoring minor leaguers all year which is more work overall. I like just having 3 (or 5) that are on my bench that I can follow updates on through CBS. It is a much bigger task to monitor the minor league FA wire.
I do like the idea of being able to keep a minor leagur 4 years (essentially 3 plus the half year they are activated).
More critical though is that there be some way to bring a minor leaguer back down if the MLB team demotes a player back to the minors. I would have hated to be keeping a Brandon Belt for 2--3 years, have activated him for this season, and then watching him get demoted to the minors. For the MLB club it is simply a delay, for a FFL owner it is abandoning someone you may have held a couple years. There should be rules and limits (Fantasy can only demote to minors if MLB did AND possibly limit to one time demotion. The minors should be fun, not frustrating.
(The above is copied from my previous post on the expansion page - before I found this post.)
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Sept 13, 2012 18:44:05 GMT -8
Reading above, some of my concerns in the above post are accentuated. 1. If I have invested in a minor league player for a couple years, I do not like being forced to move him up simply because the last place Mets decide that their going to expose one of their prospects to early playtime as a test. My team may still be trying to win and dropping a real major leaguer with little upside but respectable numbers becomes more important than the long term prospect. I then have to drop the minor leaguer due to an MLB team's whims. Once lineups go to 40 players almost every AAA prospect makes it to the majors - ready or not.
As stated above, I do not have the time to scour the minor league FA wire as much as some may. If I would get to work, check my team in the morning, and discover a minor leaguer is moved up, I suddenly have to make time to evaluate whether a quick drop of a minor leaguer or a position player is needed. There are a lot more issues when balancing the minor leaguer since I am drafting them for the future, not the present. I disagree with being forced to add-drop minor leaguers based on status in the majors.
Finally, I view myself as fairly active. All the players posting are active. If I am concerned about the increase in time devoted to minors, I think someone who wasn't interested enough to submit an e-mail with 3 minors picks will get frustrated real fast - especially if getting stuck with illegal lineups because of it.
I like going to 5, I like a slightly longer minors contract, and I like provision to bring back a demoted minor leaguer.
I do not like being forced to move up a minor leaguer, getting illegal lineups, or having to dump minor leaguers that have long term potential for sake of immediate roster needs.
I actually enjoyed contemplating whether to bring up Trout and watching him play for a few weeks before activating him. After all there is a big difference in ready for a major league roster versus resady for a fantasy baseball roster. Of all the minor leaguers brought up this season, maybe one dozen had the stats to justify a fantasy baseball roster. Of these, maybe half were able to keep up the pace all season.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Sept 13, 2012 19:06:09 GMT -8
One last thing (yes I write a lot). The forced upgrade of a minor leaguer is much more appropriate to a full blown dynasty with 30 or so teams. In that type of league, the utility infielders and 4th outfielders have value. Our league is deep, but we are still only looking at the top 20 or so starting 2Bs being rostered for fantasy purposes (and then not starting). Minor leaguers that go straight to the starting lineup and succeeding are the exception, not the riule. As a result, most minor leaguers would not have enough value to keep on a fantasy roster.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Sept 13, 2012 21:19:46 GMT -8
I definitely see the concern in mandatory moving of minor leaguers when the big clubs call them up. I know that I have a decent bit of knowledge when it comes to minors guys, but if the guys I drafted were constantly getting called up - and I had to replace them - it could get frustrating searching for the right one to add.
That said - 9 teams participated in the minors draft this year, meaning 27 players are were drafted. Even in the middle of the Sept callups, 14 of them remain in the real-life minors. So there have only been 13 instances of one of our rostered minors guys being called up in a would-be replacement needing state. Of course, thats a quick count and very unscientific. I didn't take the time to account for anyone who may have been previously called up - but sent back down.
Now I am totally up for other options. The one I outlined above is the most fool-proof, as it lets CBS' guidelines patrol the adds, drops, etc. We can maintain the minors roster as we currently do - but that will necessitate the continued policing of the adds and such as well as the patrolling of each teams' roster regularly.
I guess I don't see a real good way to facilitate the adding and dropping of minor leaguers, and giving the capability of replenishing the roster after promotions or trades unless the restrictions are there. If it is a case of you can, if you want to, but don't have to... what regulations are set forth on who can be sent to my minors roster? I could put Miguel Cabrera on there if I felt like it if there is too much gray area. In that case, we may as well just add 5 additional bench spots. Thats what I'm trying to avoid.
Like I said though, I do understand your concern, and actually share it a bit myself. I am just unsure how to make both ends of the spectrum meet in the middle - so to speak. Which is exactly why I am throwing this out in the public forum...
give me suggestions!
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Sept 22, 2012 12:07:23 GMT -8
My preference is keeping it the way it is in terms of transactions. A draft early to fill up spots, and then it is up to an owner to determine whether to bring someone up. I think it could continue to be manually enforced, especially if you have some help in the Pen.
Using this basic structure, I think the following changes could be accomodated: - Increase to 5 minor leaguers (although I am OK with 3). - Require all teams to have minor league slot filled (if they do not participate in the draft, assign based some set method after the minor league draft is set). If this is not done, it may be better to keep roster at 3. - Allow any minor leaguer that is moved up to the Fantasy active lineup, to have a one time Fantasy demotion back to the minors. (with 3 or 5) Continue the slow draft (instead of simply adding the 5 minor leaguers to the draft).
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Oct 4, 2012 18:10:47 GMT -8
I do not like replenishing your minor league team during the regular season. I think they should be replenished during the next years draft so everyone has a similar chance to pick up the same players.
Mike made some good points. I don't want to be forced to play a player just because he got called up. Like Machado, i could have used him, he was pretty hot in the last few weeks, but I didn't end up needing him. Now I'm rewarded by getting him for a full 4 years. I'd be down to extend the Minor league extension to 5-6 years max.
I agree with this, - Require all teams to have minor league slot filled (if they do not participate in the draft, assign based some set method after the minor league draft is set). If this is not done, it may be better to keep roster at 3.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Oct 10, 2012 10:15:11 GMT -8
No one said forced to activate but if you can demote and promote it would be a true minors and players would be able to still keep their contract just get used. Machado is not even who I was thinking of....but you could have used him and then still had 3 years. Reguardless of this years result you may need that guy or another at some point and could use leniency
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Oct 10, 2012 10:36:23 GMT -8
I am kicking some different ideas around in my head on this (sloooow day at work - which is good because the Tigers game is in 7 hours...).
I am thinking of opening up the minors to adds and drops, but not REQUIRING you to have a full minors slot. So if you promote a guy you don't have to immediately replace him - but the option is there if you want.
I am also thinking of requiring a player to be promoted to your MLB roster once he loses his rookie eligibility **IF** he is actually on an MLB roster at the time. If the player is still in the minors, you can keep him there on your roster. This will allow teams to utilize the minors roster to place MLB players who get sent down on it - but also not allow someone to stash Pujols there to open up another MLB roster spot. The 'pen would be helping me to enforce the lineups - rather than set CBS to give you and illegal lineup.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Oct 10, 2012 10:43:55 GMT -8
Also.... the minors draft will now take place as an extension of the MLB draft. However, I will set it so that once the 30 rounds of the MLB draft are done - I will set the draft clock to 12 hours per pick, effectively making it a slower draft. I will still accept lists from teams for each round - if you cannot check the draft room regularly - to keep the draft moving. I would want the 5 minors rounds finished within a week or so.
This will allow us to keep the current salary structure of $35 for a first round pick and so on. Minor Leaguers will have to be declared as keepers - with their salaries counting against the keeper cap (That will start next year). The lowest salary for an MLB player will be $6 (30th rounder).
I will figure out a way to account for picks already traded amongst rounds 31-35, probably some sort of sandwich pick system.
Also, the salary of free agents will rise - likely to $10.
Feel free to negotiate these details... but I am fairly set on the overall parameters. The slight details could change - but the structure will remain fairly close to the above.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Oct 10, 2012 11:57:37 GMT -8
What about existing minor league players that are worth $7 , will they be dropped down 5?
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Oct 10, 2012 12:41:30 GMT -8
All currently rostered minor leaguers will keep their current salaries, and if they are kept they will be slotted into the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of the minors draft as usual. Note that the salary of minor leaguers this offseason does not count against your keeper cap.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Oct 10, 2012 14:15:52 GMT -8
Will free agents aquired in the 2012 season have a value of $10? I think that they should be worth $10. I don't think it's fair for the new managers and for anyone that didn't know that we were going to raise the manager cap and lower the roster size. Some managers that sold off all of their big name talent are loaded with $7 former free agent talent.
If we don't, I think we should have one more season of $7 free agents to get the other managers warmed up before changing it to $10.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Oct 10, 2012 17:17:11 GMT -8
Doug great point...I agree as trades and moves were made under the previous rule and should be noted
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Oct 11, 2012 8:38:45 GMT -8
All currently rostered minor leaguers will keep their current salaries, and if they are kept they will be slotted into the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of the minors draft as usual. Note that the salary of minor leaguers this offseason does not count against your keeper cap. Does that mean that an unrostered $7 minor leaguer will be worth $7 in the first round slot that is usually worth $5?
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 2, 2013 20:07:36 GMT -8
Was a decision made as to whether Free Agents from the 2012 season are $7 or $10 for the 2013 keepers? I prefer keeping it at $7 this year, but am flexible - just want to know.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 5, 2013 8:12:18 GMT -8
I'll keep it at $7 for free agents that were picked up during 2012 - but that will increase for those picked up during 2013 to either $10 or $12. Any FA picked up last season will either have been dropped or extended when keepers are due for 2014, so all $7 FA contracts will be gone at that point. That will make a little more sense when I put together the changes with regards to roster size, salary, draft, and expansion - within the next couple of days. (Or sooner, if my company network continues to be down while I am "working" for the next 4 hours...)
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 6, 2013 12:53:29 GMT -8
I still think FA should never be more than a 1.00 that is what makes it fun and finding a diamond in the rough. 7 then to extend to be more than our last 12 rounds of players worth is too harsh
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 10, 2013 0:39:22 GMT -8
What is the story with Machado now? Do I only get him for 3 more years? I intentionally did not activate him last year so that I could have him for a full 4 years (2 standard years plus 2 years of extension). Do I get him for 3 years at $5?
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 10, 2013 0:46:57 GMT -8
All currently rostered minor leaguers will keep their current salaries, and if they are kept they will be slotted into the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of the minors draft as usual. Note that the salary of minor leaguers this offseason does not count against your keeper cap. Does that mean that an unrostered $7 minor leaguer will be worth $7 in the first round slot that is usually worth $5? Any thoughts on this?
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Post by Paul - Hanover Headhunters on Jan 10, 2013 9:03:09 GMT -8
What is the story with Machado now? Do I only get him for 3 more years? I intentionally did not activate him last year so that I could have him for a full 4 years (2 standard years plus 2 years of extension). Do I get him for 3 years at $5? Doug, actually, with what Chris proposed, you would keep him for an extra yr. activating him this yr with a three yr contract and also have the potential to extend for two more right?
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 10, 2013 10:13:28 GMT -8
As long as he currently still has rookie eligibility (I haven't checked), that is correct. His contract will be 3M, with the possibility of a 2 year extension down the line.
The minor leaguer's salary will not change, though. If I have Dylan Bundy at 7-2M under last years rules, he will become 7-3M, and be a first round minors keeper. A 5-3M will be a second rounder, and a 3-3M a third rounder.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 10, 2013 16:14:44 GMT -8
So I can keep him for $5 for 3 more years, then have an option to extend him for two more years at a cost of $11?
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Post by Quintin - Alexandria Beetles on Feb 25, 2013 17:07:07 GMT -8
Will minor leaguers be eligible for IR spots?
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Feb 25, 2013 17:20:18 GMT -8
Is this a player that you promoted to your active line up and got hurt? He should be able to go on your DL.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Feb 25, 2013 21:58:49 GMT -8
If he is active when he gets hurt then he can go on your IR. That is, if he is on the MLB disabled list.
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