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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 5, 2013 11:49:35 GMT -8
Here is a brief rundown of some of the changes for the 2013 season:
• We will move forward with a three-man committee, dubbed “The Bullpen.” It consists of Joe, Doug, and Mike. They will assist Kenny and myself if rule enforcement and trade approvals, and any other necessary capacities.
• Negative points for inherited runners scoring have been eliminated.
• The negative points for caught stealing and hitting into double plays have been reduced from -1 to -0.5.
• Points for sac bunts are reduced from 1 to 0.5. A sac fly will also score 0.5.
• Roster size is moving from 35 total players to 30 (The draft will still be 35 rounds in 2013, see below). The rosters will be less 1 SP, 2 RP, and 2 bench. This allows us to maintain the same total amount of MLB players rostered while expanding by two teams.
• With the draft being 35 rounds, and the active roster limit at 30, teams will need to drop or DL players in order to carry a legal roster into opening day. (I realize that will render some draft picks as useless, but this is the most seamless way to make the move from 35 to 30 players, while keeping previously made draft pick trades in tact)
• Minors will be expanded to 5 players, 5 rounds in the draft. Their salaries will be 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Current minor leaguers, who are kept as minors players, will have their salaries adjusted to match. Minor leaguers who are kept on the MLB roster will maintain their original salary.
• Minor leaguers contracts will be 4M (Were 2M previously). Their years of service will begin with the draft, and not upon promotion as was the previous rule. Extensions will follow the same rules as MLB players. You can extend a player who has not yet exhausted his rookie eligibility, and keep him in your minors, bot for draft slotting purposes he would carry 1st round minor league draft value.
• The minor league roster spots will be fluid. You can promote your minors players as you wish, and demote any player who has been demoted in real life. There will be no penalty for having less than 5 minor leaguers rostered. You also are not required to activate a minors player just because he is active in real life. Adding a FA to your minors will not be allowed at this time.
• In 2014, the MLB portion of the draft will be 30 rounds. Thus, the last MLB player selected will carry a salary of $6 – as the 5 round minors draft will be an extension of the MLB draft. To accommodate this change, any MLB player selected in rounds 30-35 in 2013 will carry a salary of $6.
• Free agent salary will increase from $7 to $12.
I think I have covered most of the changes. These rules are not 100% set in stone, but are close. There also may be additional slight tweaks to scoring.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 6, 2013 11:29:46 GMT -8
In moving to 14 teams, the amount of vetoes needed to bring a trade up to the commish and committee will be 4. This is 1/3 of the teams not involved in the trade.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 6, 2013 12:49:01 GMT -8
AGREE WITH THESE CHANGES...... also if a team extends a contract from "0" they must keep this player?...am I RIGHT since this was this way last year.
what is the cap to protect?..with all the changes and contracts costing more to extend did we agree on another amount?....especially the expansion teams may get 10 players at high contracts and they wont have a cap to worry about.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 6, 2013 13:46:03 GMT -8
I went through the rules, and while I always see some potential for tweaks, it looks good. Thanks for all the hard work, Chris.
In terms of the expansion draft, inevitably there will be a few owners that are not participating/following (especially since we are simply watching to see who we lost). In addition, once a 12 hour delay occurs, a good portion of the players that may have been following on February 11 will stop following regularly (leading to more 12 hour delays).
In order to keep the draft going, I would propose that all owners submit the 12 they are protecting followed by a list of at least 8 players in order of preferred protection. Maybe there could be an allowance for some simple instruction based on whether a H or P is drafted, but keep it simple - and faster.
Finally, I posted something 1 week ago (somewhere under the original expansion thread) before the latest rule above, wondering whether the number of protected players should be reduced (to 10 or maybe lower). If the expansion draft simply gets the 13 & 14th best keepers from each team, they will likely not be competitive in the 1st year.
Alternatively (and also addressing a simple and fast expansion draft, mayber each team is simply limited to protecting their top 12 choices. It would open up the not as good players slots of the draft to all players instead of 3 of the best remaining 9.
Final schedule item - when does the Commish want to get paid for 2013 and what is the 2013 fee. No reason to a repeat of the fee collection that occured in 2012.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 6, 2013 18:39:36 GMT -8
Mike you make valid points on the monies and also the players in available in expansion.But here is a dilemma I am not holding back Pedroia and they can have him since his contract is too high for me and also is expired what does the new owner get him for in the expansion?...If they take say 6 players at over 30.00 what do they do next?..extend the contracts?..what is there worth now?.. I know we are being fair but I looked at it the other way .A new team can get 6 studs that they can build around and no worries about a cap number ...It says that in one of the messages I read that the expansions do not have the cap to follow.So if they get the 1 high priced guy from each team it is worry/cap free...
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 7, 2013 8:12:45 GMT -8
Joe - I think that you are mistaken that the expansion teams are not subject to the $250 keeper cap. I am not sure, but at least back on September 13, Chris made a comment on the Possible Rule Changes discussion to this effect. I have pasted it below (was not sure how to use quotes from 1 board topic to another). Chris - Could you clarify as to whether the expansion teams are subject to the $250 cap. I had assumed that they were subject to the cap in my suggestion that fewer than 12 be protected.
(Quote from Chris in older discussion point follows) Re: Team and Playoff Expansion « Reply #23 on Sept 13, 2012, 4:58pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They would definitely have to abide by the cap. However, they would only be able to take 12 players total... and no current team would lose more than 3 players. Each current team would be able to initially protect 12 players, then protect 2 more when one is selected from their team.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 7, 2013 11:29:32 GMT -8
SO IF THEY take 12 players they have to watch the cap too? That is really screwy since we can all let our 30.00 or more players exposed and all these teams can get is players that they can not keep then?
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 7, 2013 14:37:47 GMT -8
They will have to abide by the cap no matter how many players they take. They can, however, take players that add up to more than 250, so long as they trade or drop players to get at or below $250 when keepers are due.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 7, 2013 15:29:09 GMT -8
how does that help them?..they may go into draft with 7 or 8 players with no low price guys?.. advantage us then......you should give them an exemption of say a 300.00 cap since they are getting what we let them have and I know in my case its High Price players with 0 contract that will cripple them [Pedroia...etc]
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 7, 2013 18:09:59 GMT -8
Their advantage is that they will likely have many more draft picks than us. A 300 cap probably won't help them any more, as unless they trade all of their picks for high priced guys, they won't get anywhere close to 250 even.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 7, 2013 18:42:53 GMT -8
I'm not so sure its an advantage. It just allows the new teams to get some players to get their teams started and balance the league a little bit. It also makes the existing teams less powerful since they lose some of their potential keepers.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 8, 2013 5:45:14 GMT -8
This is why I think that protecting 10 (or less?) may be more applicable protecting 12. With protecting 12, the existing owners seem to have an advantage. We all like our teams, but by the time you get to your 13th best keeper you really are debating between FA picks from last year, 1 year remaining players, and or the high dollar players.
If I can protect 12, I may regret losing my #13, but it does not substantially change my team makeup or next year's prospects. At the same time, a team made up of the 13th and 14th best keepers from other teams, does not get the chance to really build from a core foundation.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 8, 2013 5:54:55 GMT -8
I just went through and checked the 2012 draft. Overall, there were 140 keepers or an average of 11.6 keepers per team. In otehr words, theoretically all keeper worthy players in 2012 could have theoretically been protected. Now I am sure there were some diamonds in the rough that make it through due to budget constraints, but in general the picking would be slim for those 13th and 14th best "keepers" from each team.
If the normal draft is the expansion team's advantage (as noted by Chris above), then they should be allotted the top 2 slots. Also note that if more draft picks is truly an advantage, there should be more non-expansion teams each year just keeping 2 or 3 players and then relying almost exclusively on the draft. At least all the non-expansion team have a choice on how to rebuild.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 8, 2013 5:59:51 GMT -8
2 draft/expansion related questions:
1. For the players given $5 extensions after the season, the rules state that these players must be kept (with an exception for a catastrophic injury). That said, do they have to be protected? If picked up in the expansion draft, does the expansion team have to keep them?
2. In terms of the expansion draft, I have seen reference to team's potentially opting for less than 12 picks if they hit their budget limit. I would assume it is their prerogative to draft 12, then evaluate their keepers to fit the budget. They will submit their actual keeper list when all teams do. In the time between the expansion draft and real draft, I assume that the expansion teams can make trades for players and picks using all 12 of the players they have at that point. Am I correct in interpreting this?
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 8, 2013 7:53:53 GMT -8
If we all expose expiring contracts ,per the rules they are to be kept. So back to what I said..If we expose the expiring contracts to these new teams it handcuffs them since they must be kept.
also ,If a new owner does not want a player from my team,can they skip from my team and take 2 from Doug?.... So theoretically 12 players can be taken from only 6 teams.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 8, 2013 8:02:50 GMT -8
I think ,and again with my experience and reading this over to get FAIRNESS and not bury a new team.....I have a suggestion?...? Lets say the new teams get in the 1st 12 rounds their own pick and a supplemental pick every other round so after 12 rounds they have 18 players.This way it is un affected by the cap. I also think they can get better this way and see what is out there and stay competitive.They wont really have a chance to get in the expansion draft cheap players since we will keep them,plus we have minors to keep that are cheap and they have no chance to get these for the future too. .This way they can get some talent and we can keep free agents with no reservation or fairness.
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Post by Quintin - Alexandria Beetles on Jan 8, 2013 16:33:46 GMT -8
perhaps any player the two new expansion teams acquires via expansion draft or regular draft, the player's keeper time resets to zero? That would take away a bit of the issue.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 8, 2013 17:11:21 GMT -8
If we all expose expiring contracts ,per the rules they are to be kept. So back to what I said..If we expose the expiring contracts to these new teams it handcuffs them since they must be kept. also ,If a new owner does not want a player from my team,can they skip from my team and take 2 from Doug?.... So theoretically 12 players can be taken from only 6 teams. What does it matter if they choose a player with one, two or three years left on their contract? Every contract is expiring one day. Its up to the new team if they pick them or not, no one is holding a gun to their head. All players with contracts that are expired have been dropped, like Billy Butler or Andrew McCutchen. If the expansion team doesn't like Joe's team. They can take one player from my team. Then I get to protect two more players. Then an expansion team can take another player of mine if they so choose. Then I can protect two more. I believe that any one team can only have 3 players max taken. I'm just guessing that some teams may lose no players and some may lose the maximum. If the expansion teams take the maximum amount of players, 24 players will be removed from the existing teams to go to their new expansion teams. That could be 24 players from 8 teams or maybe 24 players from 12 teams.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 8, 2013 17:18:05 GMT -8
Lets say the new teams get in the 1st 12 rounds their own pick and a supplemental pick every other round so after 12 rounds they have 18 players.This way it is un affected by the cap. quote] Are you talking about the regular draft? I don't like this idea at all. An expansion team typically should struggle early on.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 8, 2013 17:23:22 GMT -8
I just went through and checked the 2012 draft. Overall, there were 140 keepers or an average of 11.6 keepers per team. In otehr words, theoretically all keeper worthy players in 2012 could have theoretically been protected. Now I am sure there were some diamonds in the rough that make it through due to budget constraints, but in general the picking would be slim for those 13th and 14th best "keepers" from each team. If the normal draft is the expansion team's advantage (as noted by Chris above), then they should be allotted the top 2 slots. Also note that if more draft picks is truly an advantage, there should be more non-expansion teams each year just keeping 2 or 3 players and then relying almost exclusively on the draft. At least all the non-expansion team have a choice on how to rebuild. I kept 14 guys and wanted to keep more. However my cap stopped that. I ended up dropping some and trading some.
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Post by Joe - Milwaukee Brewers on Jan 8, 2013 17:54:44 GMT -8
Chris has stated that he wanted these teams to get good players and be competitive, them taking my 13th or worse players,bad contracts and no rookies is not helping them....
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Post by Paul - Hanover Headhunters on Jan 8, 2013 18:24:34 GMT -8
I'm not seeing the issue here - when I came into the league I inherited a roster that I had no input in - I got what I got, as is, and had to make due through trades, and free agent pickups and basically sacrificed my first season in order to be competitive in year two. I didn't have the option of picking and choosing a top fifteen player from each team. I think the rules as Chris has defined them are more than fair.
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Post by Paul - Hanover Headhunters on Jan 8, 2013 18:25:59 GMT -8
I have a question - in regards to the minor draft - if we keep players that we've drafted last year do their years reset to 4M?
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 9, 2013 9:07:21 GMT -8
2 draft/expansion related questions: 1. For the players given $5 extensions after the season, the rules state that these players must be kept (with an exception for a catastrophic injury). That said, do they have to be protected? If picked up in the expansion draft, does the expansion team have to keep them? 2. In terms of the expansion draft, I have seen reference to team's potentially opting for less than 12 picks if they hit their budget limit. I would assume it is their prerogative to draft 12, then evaluate their keepers to fit the budget. They will submit their actual keeper list when all teams do. In the time between the expansion draft and real draft, I assume that the expansion teams can make trades for players and picks using all 12 of the players they have at that point. Am I correct in interpreting this? To answer the first part, if an expansion team selects a player who has been extended from a 0 contract, they will be required to be kept. If a player is extended, exposed, and not selected - then the original extending team will be required to keep him. For #2, you are correct on everything you mentioned.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 9, 2013 9:15:42 GMT -8
So back to what I said..If we expose the expiring contracts to these new teams it handcuffs them since they must be kept. quote] I don't believe it would "handcuff" the new teams at all - as they know going in that if they select an expired/extended player that they must keep them.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 9, 2013 9:55:04 GMT -8
I have a question - in regards to the minor draft - if we keep players that we've drafted last year do their years reset to 4M? The 4M contract will begin with players drafted this year. Players kept will keep their previous contracts. ---> Also, I think it was Joe that mentioned that the expansion teams can't select minors players. I dont think I directly addressed it either, but if you don't want a minors player taken in the expansion draft you must protect him.
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Post by Paul - Hanover Headhunters on Jan 9, 2013 10:30:38 GMT -8
so if we keep minor leaguers they keep their current contracts of two years but a newly drafted minor carries a four yr contract? and the clock starts on both this season? sorry for the confusion just want to make sure I'm understanding.
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Post by Chris - D-Town Diamond Dusters on Jan 9, 2013 13:13:38 GMT -8
so if we keep minor leaguers they keep their current contracts of two years but a newly drafted minor carries a four yr contract? and the clock starts on both this season? sorry for the confusion just want to make sure I'm understanding. The more I think about this, the more I think I may change the contracts around. My newest thought is to move any kept minor leaguer to a 3M. That would retroactively make them all 4M - with last year burning the first year off of their contract. That also benefits everyone by adding another year to what they are currently at.
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Post by Mike - N.C. Pine Tar Sluggers on Jan 9, 2013 14:20:03 GMT -8
so if we keep minor leaguers they keep their current contracts of two years but a newly drafted minor carries a four yr contract? and the clock starts on both this season? sorry for the confusion just want to make sure I'm understanding. The more I think about this, the more I think I may change the contracts around. My newest thought is to move any kept minor leaguer to a 3M. That would retroactively make them all 4M - with last year burning the first year off of their contract. That also benefits everyone by adding another year to what they are currently at. Chris - I think that increasing the existing minors to 3 years also has another benefit - it makes the minors players more valuuable to either protect or draft as an expansion team. By giving these minors players more keeper value, the 12 non-expansion teams have much more reason to protect the minor league players opening up the pool of available minors and major leaguers for the expansion draft. This increases "fairness" and the competitiveness of the expansion draft. It also makes sure that the minors players on existing teams continue to have value. I like this suggestion.
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Post by Doug - Tatooine Tusken-Raiders on Jan 24, 2013 17:35:05 GMT -8
Per Chris, no player trades will be allowed until the expansion draft is over. Trading picks for picks are allowed.
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